 General Conference Suspends 3abn's Status, Supportive Ministry Status suspended by GC announcement |
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 Mar 16 2008, 03:47 PM
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#286
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 Advanced Member  Group: Members Posts: 435 Joined: 2-July 07 Member No.: 4,103 Gender: f  |
QUOTE(Pickle @ Mar 16 2008, 03:37 PM)  Stan, I guess it would be all right if there weren't the regulations against section 4958 excess benefit transactions, and if it had been properly disclosed on the 990. Bob, hint:  you still haven't proved it was a excess benefit transaction. As has been pointed out repeatedly now, you just keep repeating this, and that the house was sold below fair market value, as if those things are facts without proving that they are. Nor have you explained how financial officers, auditors, IRS agents, and even the lawyers involved in drawing up the documents, and in reviewing them, all could have missed these things. |
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Mar 16 2008, 04:03 PM
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#287
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1,000 + posts  Group: Members Posts: 1,483 Joined: 29-July 06 Member No.: 1,960 Gender: m |
Have you forgotten? The 1998 Form 990 has an attachment that acknowledges that the house was sold at below fair market value.
Are you suggesting that that attachment is a lie? |
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Mar 16 2008, 05:14 PM
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#288
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 435 Joined: 2-July 07 Member No.: 4,103 Gender: f |
QUOTE(Pickle @ Mar 16 2008, 04:03 PM) Have you forgotten? The 1998 Form 990 has an attachment that acknowledges that the house was sold at below fair market value. Are you suggesting that that attachment is a lie? I am not suggesting that, I am suggesting you just don't get it, and are too into trying to justify your interpretations and opinions, and allegations to back down, or even try to understand ...  So, I am not going to help you |
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Mar 16 2008, 05:23 PM
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#289
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 500 + posts  Group: Financial Donor Posts: 629 Joined: 8-August 04 From: Over here Member No.: 529 Gender: f |
Bob;
I believe someone is stumped and just does not know the answer! -------------------- The greatest want of the world is the want of men-- men who will not be bought or sold, men who in their inmost souls are true and honest, men who do not fear to call sin by its right name, men whose conscience is as true to duty as the needle to the pole, men who will stand for the right though the heavens fall. {Ed 57.3}
But such a character is not the result of accident; it is not due to special favors or endowments of Providence. A noble character is the result of self-discipline, of the subjection of the lower to the higher nature--the surrender of self for the service of love to God and man. {Ed 57.4} |
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Mar 16 2008, 06:05 PM
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#290
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 Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 176 Joined: 2-May 07 Member No.: 3,486 Gender: m |
QUOTE(Fran @ Mar 16 2008, 04:23 PM) Bob; I believe someone is stumped and just does not know the answer! Yep. And that someone is Pickle and that someone is Fran... -------------------- --Shiny Penny--
My beloved friends, let us continue to love each other since love comes from God. Everyone who loves is born of God... The person who refuses to love doesn't know the first thing about God, because God is love—so you can't know him if you don't love. This is how God showed his love for us: God sent his only Son into the world so we might live through him. This is the kind of love we are talking about—not that we once upon a time loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as a sacrifice to clear away our sins and the damage they've done to our relationship with God. 1 John 4:7-10 (esaajr@asia.com) |
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Mar 16 2008, 06:15 PM
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#291
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1,000 + posts Group: Members Posts: 1,483 Joined: 29-July 06 Member No.: 1,960 Gender: m |
QUOTE(Fran @ Mar 16 2008, 05:23 PM) Bob; I believe someone is stumped and just does not know the answer! I think you're right, Fran. Ian doesn't know what to say, since 3ABN itself on the 1998 Form 990 admitted they sold the house to someone for below Fair Market Value. And that's the definition of a section 4958 excess benefit transaction. |
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Mar 16 2008, 06:52 PM
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#292
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500 + posts Group: Financial Donor Posts: 629 Joined: 8-August 04 From: Over here Member No.: 529 Gender: f |
QUOTE(Pickle @ Mar 16 2008, 06:15 PM) I think you're right, Fran. Ian doesn't know what to say, since 3ABN itself on the 1998 Form 990 admitted they sold the house to someone for below Fair Market Value. And that's the definition of a section 4958 excess benefit transaction. I believe when the IRS gets through, they will have a true understanding of what that means. -------------------- The greatest want of the world is the want of men-- men who will not be bought or sold, men who in their inmost souls are true and honest, men who do not fear to call sin by its right name, men whose conscience is as true to duty as the needle to the pole, men who will stand for the right though the heavens fall. {Ed 57.3}
But such a character is not the result of accident; it is not due to special favors or endowments of Providence. A noble character is the result of self-discipline, of the subjection of the lower to the higher nature--the surrender of self for the service of love to God and man. {Ed 57.4} |
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Mar 17 2008, 01:39 AM
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#293
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Advanced Member Group: Financial Donor Posts: 334 Joined: 7-January 07 Member No.: 2,782 Gender: m |
QUOTE(Ian @ Mar 16 2008, 02:47 PM) Bob, hint: you still haven't proved it was a excess benefit transaction. As has been pointed out repeatedly now, you just keep repeating this, and that the house was sold below fair market value, as if those things are facts without proving that they are. Nor have you explained how financial officers, auditors, IRS agents, and even the lawyers involved in drawing up the documents, and in reviewing them, all could have missed these things. Ian, Can you provide a simple reason how spending 6,100 to make 135,000 does not look adn sound like a little bit excessive of a benfit. I mean that is like 129,000 which is easily 3 times the national avg. income. I am all for people making money and getting paid fairly. I just want to know how come you are so sure this is cool, and how in the world it does not smell of of a a inside deal and sweetheart one at that. I mean after all 129,000 is a lot of money if it was coming in 25.00 at a time. Erik |
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Mar 17 2008, 06:34 AM
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#294
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 435 Joined: 2-July 07 Member No.: 4,103 Gender: f |
QUOTE(erik @ Mar 17 2008, 01:39 AM) Ian, Can you provide a simple reason how spending 6,100 to make 135,000 does not look adn sound like a little bit excessive of a benfit. I mean that is like 129,000 which is easily 3 times the national avg. income. I am all for people making money and getting paid fairly. I just want to know how come you are so sure this is cool, and how in the world it does not smell of of a a inside deal and sweetheart one at that. I mean after all 129,000 is a lot of money if it was coming in 25.00 at a time. Erik Eric, I might have been willing to do so, had I might even have given you the benefit of the doubt that you had not seen this and weren't aware of it, except that when I went to get you the link, I found the following, right in the middle of that discussion where it was explained that all they purchased was the "remainder interest". It makes your questions here look disingenuous, and shows me you will just find fault no matter how it is explained. That of course is your choice, but like Pickle you are going to have a hard time justifying or proving the stance you've taken. QUOTE(erik @ Feb 23 2008, 10:39 AM) QUOTE(Ian on Feb 22 2008 @ 08:38 AM) Laurence, no offense, but I think the point just wooshed right over your head. Pickle claimed they bought the hoiuse for less than it's value, and than resold it and profited in a ilegal, or shady manner because of how it was done... But that isn't true, and they didn't, they already had a lifetime interest in the house they lived in according to what is legally called a Revocable or Living trust. Why? Because a donor had made one and specified this. To put it simply, and in laymen terms. All they did was purchase the balance... according to legal guidelines defining the amount based on expected and average lifespans and the value of the property. And it was all overseen and drafted by a lawyer. They were then clear to sell it to whomover they chose, whenever they chose. Nothing shady or illegal about it Ian, Ok if that is true it might be legal,, but it looks and stinks to the gates of heaven. Erik edit -repeated word with strikethrough This post has been edited by Ian: Mar 17 2008, 07:14 AM |
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Mar 17 2008, 07:50 AM
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#295
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1,000 + posts Group: Members Posts: 1,483 Joined: 29-July 06 Member No.: 1,960 Gender: m |
Ian, please tell us when Danny and Linda paid to anyone anything more than $6,139 for that house, at any point in time.
Whether they bought just the remainder interest in 1998 at a $40,000+ loss (3ABN's reported figure) is beside the point. When did they pay fair market value for the interest that wasn't allegedly remainder interest? |
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